Committing Location Based Service Suicide

January 21, 2010 by Andrew Hyde Posted in BrightKite, FourSquare

Yesterday I checked in for my last time.  I’m done.  No more BrightKite, FourSquare or Gowalla.  I was an early user on all three of the services, and am quitting cold turkey.

But why? (and why would anyone care…)

Well, why anyone would care can only be pointed to me just being a point of data as a heavy user leaving the services. I was a poweruser.  878 posts on Brightkite, 703 checkins on Foursquare, 54 stamps with Gowalla, and I had enabled geotagging on my twitter account and posted over 2000 messages.

Simply: too much work and risk, too little reward.

All I got were quite a few stalker like experiences grouped with a shift of my thinking about location based services from expression of physical identity to needless ego boost.

One specific interaction really bothered me to look at the benefits of these services.  I had someone look up historical data on my checkins and put themselves in places so they would ‘run into me.’   Once I switched my habits, they did as well (that is when I figured it out).

Their response: ‘well, you put it out there.’

I did.  I opted in to getting stalked.  From a stalkers point of view, this is a goldmine.  Foursquare for example lists the picture and location of recently crowned mayors on their homepage.  Here is a picture of someone, with the address of the place they usually hang out. I find that troubling, especially for someone just wanting to share with friends.

In trade for being at risk of stalkers, you get $1 off your beer.  The tradeoff just doesn’t seem worth it.

I never thought I would advocate for privacy with these services.  There are plenty of crazy folks in the public, enabling them with your name does nothing to add to crazy, you are still at risk, but I can’t help but realize how troubling this data can become when the startups that are hosting the data are motivated to have the most complete data set of the most influential people in the area.  In other words, a private ‘with friends’ model is needed, but startups are not rewarded for keeping privacy, they are rewarded for having the hottest network (most public).

You won’t finding me checking in anymore.

I feel the need to close with a crotchety ‘Get off my lawn.’ :)





  • jkimlosangeles
    Andrew:

    Great post – everything you wrote makes sense. I can see the imbalance. I am bummed that you had a stalking experience. Let me throw out a couple of comments:

    Why check in today? The value is friend finding and ego boo. These values are strong enough to draw trial and interest among some of the most digitally addicted but probably not strong enough to attract the mainstream. A product plan based purely on these values would not be funded today.

    The toughest problem for companies in this space is solving the cold start problem. It forces products to focus on more superficial benefits however once data is flowing, new opportunities will emerge and great value will be generated. Companies are not talking widely about these opportunities publically yet because the opportunity is too enormous and the space too competitive.

    Don’t commit LBS suicide just yet. In the 90s, people could not imagine putting their credit card information on the internet. When social networks first emerged, people could not imagine uploading a picture of themselves for anyone to see. I remember first using AOL and thinking AOL Chat, is this all the internet has to offer? You are right, there is an imbalance today but it won’t last.
  • Interesting post. There has to be a better use for location based services than 'bragging rights'.

    I was using google maps on my iPhone yesterday having been diverted on the train. I could see my new destination, and I could see where I was, but I couldnt see my friend who was coming to pick me up - now *that* would have been useful!
  • There's another use for these services. Who do I *not* want to meet? Where are they currently? *So* not going there! [grin]
  • Whem I moved to Idaho ten years ago, I opted out then :-)

    I like your thinking Andrew, enough's enough...
  • Great thinking. In regards to Check-In-usage, we are well behind in Europe. Which makes it all the more interesting to understand what social impklications this has.

    Started me thinking: what is the percentage of (young) women on Foursquare? Can't imagine it is very high.

    So, while I think Foursquare is tappinbg into something remarkable, I agree privacy issues must be addressed.
  • And I thought you enjoyed all those times we "hung out together" ... can I just call you from now on?

    I'm actually considering killing the location based stuff and Facebook. I'm tired of showing up tagged in other people's photos, among other things.
  • lolbsolis1
    I dont have a smart phone :))

    However, the folks who will propel the location-sharing model to new heights will be the kids who are growing up now. They will legitimize location sharing to the extent that it will become crazy not to do it. That is the future (I think). You may choose not to be a part of it, but you could be in the minority, sometime very soon.

    Darwinism, Obama and Social Media - links, ramifications. Check out my blog :)

    Cheers
    http://correlationist.wordpress.com
  • Interesting to hear your thoughts on this. I (finally) decided to try out Foursquare a couple weeks ago after watching Kevin Rose talk about his investments in both 4sq and Gowalla. I think the services are a great way for primarily small businesses to track and reward their most loyal customer(s), and 4sq/Gowalla have done a great job of making a game out of it so people think less about the fact they're telling the world where they are and think more about dismantling their buddy as Mayor and the free beer they'll earn after 99 more check-ins at the local watering hold.

    I have a hard time believing that anyone of any influence or popularity (such as yourself, Rose, etc.) is going to benefit from this in the long run. It's not only troubling to tell the world where you are at any given time, it's even more concerning, as some have already pointed out, to tell the world where you're NOT.

    Don't get me wrong, I think location-based services and advertising is going to be huge - we just need to create an alternative to the "here I am, come harass me" risk of the current services while still retaining the value to all parties. I'm open to suggestions.

    I've checked in twice on Foursquare, and that's probably enough for me. Thanks for taking the bold step to quit cold turkey! I will now get off your lawn.
  • Thanks for sharing your thoughts and describing how you came to this decision. It's interesting to see other people's thought process and rationalizations for decisions they make.

    I started using Foursquare at SXSW last year when they launched the iPhone app and really enjoyed it. At first mayorships and bragging rights were cool, but when they finally launched in Phoenix I realized that the real value I got from it was the discovery of new places. It definitely helped me break out of my routine.

    More recently, I don't use it as much as I used to and I only check in when I don't mind being found by other people. Moderation seems to have worked for me. I hope LBS seppuku works for you... :)
  • itsmejoe
    Finally, I can get the mayorship of the Trident back from you.
  • andrewhyde
    I drank so many cups of tea to get it in the first place :)
  • Andrew, thanks for the post! We want people to use Gowalla in a way that enriches their lives, and also one that they're comfortable with. If you haven't seen them yet, you might take a look at the privacy settings we introduced a couple weeks back: http://gowalla.com/blog/2010/01/passport-privac...

    It might not be everything you're looking for, but it's a start for us. We are listening to the great people using our little service, and we want to make it something for everyone to enjoy using and also that fits comfortably. I would be happy to get more of your feedback after you've had a chance to take a look at the new settings.

    Thanks!
  • andrewhyde
    Look forward to meeting you at SXSW this year!
  • I'm still not sure about GoWalla, but I really enjoy FourSquare. I think it just depends on your friends. True, if you don't know anyone else that uses these services it could get a little creepy, but I have a lot of friends that are on FourSquare. It's fun because we hang out a lot more due to the fact that a lot of time they were close to me, but I never knew it.

    But yeah... not for everyone. I don't think it's going to catch on like wildfire... but it does have a useful niche for certain people.
  • I've definitely thought about this before and bounced back and forth between paranoid and naive. Ultimately, I don't have friends on Foursquare I don't actually know/trust and I don't check in at home or in offices, but more than once have I considered calling the whole thing off.
  • andrewhyde
    You only have friends on Foursquare but they expose your name and photo when you are the mayor. When you check into a place, the data is available publicly, from what I have seen (other people checked in there can see you).
  • Excellent points, and I'm still considering leaving them all...
  • Your post has inspired me to delete my GoWall and FourSquare accounts as well. Thanks for opening my eyes.
  • marc1919
    I'm a heavy twitter user, who's been rightly accused of oversharing many times - but I just can't seem to get into location based services. I don't think that it's a privacy thing for me, though I did have a stalker situation last year where someone knew I was going to be somewhere private came "just to chat". It was a little uncool, but not completely creepy. The problem I have had since Dodgeball is that it's too much work for the user without a balanced psychological reward. I just had this conversation yesterday with the manager of my favorite coffeeshop (@coffeegroundz) about the fact that he's been giving discounts to 4S mayors since early summer, but it still hasn't really caught on. If these LBS would auto-broadcast your updates when you got to a specific place, it makes things a little easier but then they would have to call it Beacon - and everyone knows how well that word worked out for Facebook privacy fans.
  • freerobby
    Good post, Andrew (and way to provoke a great discussion, too).

    I use FourSquare when I'm at a public place and would be happy for my friends to drop by and say hello. The pattern-stalking incident you mentioned though is pretty creepy, and while I like to think the odds of that are small, especially for someone like me who doesn't have a ton of followers, it will definitely make me think twice about checking in "regularly" at the places I frequent.

    Regarding privacy, you're unfortunately correct that companies are rewarded for making your data as public as possible. Unless you're willing to take your ball and go home -- something most people won't do unless things get _really_ bad -- they have little incentive to offer you a private option.
  • andrewhyde
    I didn't think much of the post when I wrote it, amazed with the attention it is getting. Really striking a chord with a mass group.

    Interesting to see where it goes.
  • Lots of debate going on in the PR Community too re Geolocation : http://community.prweek.com/blogs/firehose/arch...
  • andrewhyde
    Thanks for sharing the link, very interesting commentary over there.
  • bartdenny
    I guess that if Twitter sickens you, you certainly are not the right type for either Foursquare or Gowalla. But clearly a lot of people love Twitter, and these apps serve a great purpose alongside.

    But we are early days still, and I certainly think there is room for different models. Tacking on existing social graphs from Twitter and Facebook is one model, but private or even anonymous groups are another.
  • andrewhyde
    Thanks for the comment, something to think about!
  • andrew
    I feel you. Coming from someone who is more than a bit antisocial, I don't care about letting people know where I am. If I want them to know, they'll get a call, or a smoke signal at least. Otherwise, lyke, leave me alone. It took a year for my girlfriend to convince me to get a cell phone.

    Twitter sickens me; to take twitter and make it location-based sickens me even more. There has to be a point to these tools, such as updating the people who you would normally be texting or calling to let them know where you are. Otherwise it's fun for a few days, but it collects dust after you realize every fucking day is the same.
    "Hey, I'm at work."
    "Wow, I'm getting coffee. Exciting, right?"
    "I'm home. Exact same time as yesterday and the day before. Weird."

    Guess what, nobody cares. Just like twitter. Millions of people sending crap into a void that just collects and compresses crap and spews it out in 50,000 directions. I know what kind of coffee Kutch got this morning. Boy, do I feel enriched.

    I'd love to see a service that allows you to just update your real friends, and then maybe there wouldn't be such an enormous push to add lame content, but instead only update when "hey, I'm at the bar, who's with me?" which seems to be the minority in the game of "OMG I have to check in here 10 more times or I won't be mayor!!! LOL!!"

    What a waste of time. Seems like everyone misses the point in the war to get users the quickest.
  • andrewhyde
    The most unhealthy actions get the most users.... interesting isn't it? I would think the other way around, but with the social distribution doesn't seem to matter.
  • firewallender
    I pretty much agree with Marina Martin on this subject (as I do on most subjects) - just use friending carefully and take advantage of privacy settings. Don't succumb to plots that prey upon some weird sense of nerd-pride we all have that compels us to overshare. The same could be said with Twitter as well.

    That all being said, I have had people, nice people even, show up unwanted and without warning to join me in events they were not actually welcome at, i.e., a was-supposed-to-be-one-on-one dinner. But, a checkin is an invitation. I learned that lesson well.

    On that note, I'm taking this post as a reminder to go through my friendlist on Foursquare. :-)
  • "...a checkin is an invitation."

    This, to me, is the key part of how to best use these services.

    They tempt you and encourage you to check in everywhere, win prizes & badges & special deals.

    And I think that's where you can run into the problem of over-sharing or even privacy issues.

    But when used in a specific manner (e.g. I'm at a cafe & wondering who else is around), they can be great tools.

    To me, it's not a black or white issue. There is a LOT of room for gray, based on what you want to get out of the service. It always comes back to how you use the tool and what you want to get out of it. The services themselves aren't bad, you just have to make sure you use them in a manner that is consistent with your expectations of privacy. And I think it's also a good idea to keep in mind the "annoyance factor" to others if you're checking in all the time.

    I guess to me it seems pretty simple....check in when/where you might want to meet up with people. Else, don't check in.
  • Diablo
    As someone else mentioned above, I only check in to a place when I'm about to leave.
  • andrewhyde
    Also agree with Marina a majority of the time, including now.

    Remember, your foursquare checkin is just as public to outside your friend network if other people are checked into the same place...
  • Andy Mac
    People can rent their own Paparazzi these days and I think celeb status is considered to have arrived once you've a stalker. What if you advertise and get one and have your 15 minutes of fame? Of course having one would be terrifying but there are some real sickos out there in terms of the stalker and the stalkee.

    I see a time when there'll be assassin games like those played on college grounds but on a global level. These days people are flippant with their privacy and these services will increase that. I think it's really screwed up that I'll be able to go to a pub, look at my smartphone and know who many of the people in the bar are by name, picture and then search deeper and find where they work, their interests etc.

    Because of all this, we'll soon see advertising for holidays in web free locations. 'Be uncontactable for 5 days. Come holiday in xyz-land :-)'
  • andrewhyde
    Yeah, it is really the think that I want to have. The new black.
  • partyaficionado
    I've only recently started using 4sq. I started to see how boring my daily trips must look. Coffee shop, yoga studio, park to walk the dog, yawn.
    Now if I go somewhere really interesting I'll check in.

    As an event professional, I am very intrigued by the exhibit booth "check in" that was used during ces and other events. So I'll stick around for a while.
  • chaig
    1. There is no such thing as a "private" network or "private" data.

    2. The only people thinking about this stuff are people who came of age prior to the internet and social networking. The younger generation won't even contemplate the implications, it will just be a part of their life.
  • Andrew, I feel similarly and wrote about it here, from a slightly different angle:

    http://blog.blockchalk.com/post/255903147/livin...

    There is huge potential in location-based services, but in order to tap into it we need to get a lot smarter about how these services impact people's lives in the real world -- and that includes taking things like privacy more seriously. (That's part of what we're trying to do with BlockChalk, btw.)
  • andrewhyde
    Thanks for sharing the post.
  • I just became the mayor of Standing Outside Your Window on @foursquare!
  • andrewhyde
    There could be a great brandjacking photoshoot on that....
  • FLICKR PROJECT

    GO!
  • Sam
    I've been ousted as mayor of my own house :-)

    I think Google latitude has it right. I liked the alert I received the other day when an out of town friend happened to be a few miles away from me.
    I'm deleting foursquare, waiting to see how the yelp check-in feature works out (for android).
  • Interesting. As an iPhone user on AT&T, my Droid envy grows with each passing day.
  • never signed up never knew why anyone would use this stuff even with a big ego and prefer lying about my location half the time. more interewted to hear your thoughts about it in a few weeks.
  • andrewhyde
    I'm looking forward to talking to you about it!
  • having already been stalked several times in my decade plus on the net, i could not understand why people wanted to show geolocation info - i wouldn't in a blue fit :)
  • andrewhyde
    I think a sharing of location is a form of expression... can be good and bad.
  • hansdekraker
    My experience is exactly the same. I think an important point that Robert Scoble makes also takes the authenticity out of it all: allows you to cheat. I became a Super User on Four Square but simply could not be bothered fiddling around on my phone anymore as I went from one place to the other on NYE for example. The other thing that must be boring when others keep finding out that I have coffee at Harrys Espresso Bar twice or three times a day, every day! I certainly do not need to know that people are getting home or go into their office every day. I think Lattitude does a better and more private job, giving me more choice.
  • stickfigure
    Have you checked out Mobcast? http://www.mobca.st/

    It's not a game and it doesn't share your location with people that aren't (Facebook) friends... it's designed rather as a social tool that you would use specifically when you are going out to meet up with friends.

    The core feature is a map with all your friends on it, updated in realtime. Similar to Latitude, but with a much better UI and deeply integrated into Facebook (for example, privacy controls via standard FB friend lists). It's not the kind of thing that you run all the time, but when you go out on the town it's actually practical and useful.

    (I'm one of the developers)
  • andrewhyde
    Very cool. I'm out of the game but enjoy hearing about new products.
  • Just think of all the free time you can spend creating real value now. :)
  • andrewhyde
    WIN.
  • I don't have a phone that's really compatible, so I've never tried it, but I can't imagine wanting to. One person I follow on Twitter is always updating his location and it's the creepiest thing. First he's at this store, then that store, then the library, then work...over the day I see him go all over. It's far more information than I want about anyone and it'd make me feel extremely vulnerable to stalkers, friends, everyone. If ppl want to know where I am, they can ask me directly. :)
  • andrewhyde
    That is what I am falling back to.
  • jimgoldstein
    This has always been in the back of my mind with social media sited using location based services. I passed on BrightKite when it came out but have been experimenting with FourSquare for a week or so. I suppose how and when you use the likes of FourSquare makes a big difference. I only checkin after I've left and I reference friend's tips as a great way to find new places or try new things. All of this is a nonissue if you're not using FS obsessively. Nonethe less most people frequent the same locations and opening up where you can be found with greater frequency does seem to be a formula for disaster in some rare instances. How much of a risk is too much? Odds are I'm going to settle in on any risk = too much. Unless I'm convince otherwise. There's still time to be convinced even if I turn into a dormant FS user.
  • andrewhyde
    BrightKite by far has the best privacy settings, but FourSquare is the most public (shiny object wins). How much risk is too much is a great question.
  • Privacy is the new sharing.
  • andrewhyde
    Would love to see a post about this.
  • Duh
    Duh. You just figured it out? You didn't have the foresight to see that coming?
  • firewallender
    So glad you're here to add to the conversation.
  • andrewhyde
    Thanks for responding so I don't have to :)
  • Wow!
  • andrewhyde
    I think we talked about this when you were in Boulder!
  • Dude, I can't believe you were getting stalked. Haha (I know it's not a laughing matter but seriously wtf, losers!) I use Foursquare for all my ridiculous venues. i.e. Star Wars Cantina in Mos Eisley, Tatooine, Seattle. Or like, Erin's Pants in Seattle and LA, Foursquare Abuse Clinic and the Hashtag Butchering Rehab Center. ;)

    Anyway, if Foursquare implements private accounts (or at least privacy settings on their website) reconsider signing up just for conferences. It's pretty useful whilst coordinating. :)
  • firewallender
    I'm mayor of "The Ewok Village" in Seattle. Seriously. :-)
  • andrewhyde
    You are my hero.
  • IT'S ON LIKE DONKEY KONG. The race to mayor begins. Round One FIGHT. ;)
  • firewallender
    K, but no cheating!
  • If you like location that's just friends based, try Rally

    http://www.rallyapp.com/

    Based in Santa Cruz, from the team that made 12seconds.tv

    I like it, and I'm a reclusive bureaucrat
  • andrewhyde
    Thanks for the tip, love the 12 seconds crew.
  • stephanwehner
    Sounds good. I thought those tools were mostly for entertainment.
    If they don't amuse you, there is only the loss of privacy left

    Stephan
  • Andrew, we've chatted about this before--I think when we had both checked in somewhere and some fans of yours showed up.

    Told you how I was burned with Plazes, and I'll be glad to see more attention paid to how geolocative services are quite different when it comes to privacy.

    Foursquare needs Comptrollers as well as Mayors--
  • So, you treat social networks as marketing tools, by friending anyone and everyone, and then get upset when others do the same? That's like a hooker getting indignant over getting the clap. Yeesh.
  • itmightbedave
    It's interesting that none of the comments mention that Brightkite will provide the kind of privacy options you want, Andrew. Assuming privacy is really the only issue for you. Checking in is a lot of work.

    I don't use Brightkite or any other LBS much myself, despite being big on spatial statistics. The thing is, the current check-in model isn't that useful for analysis. The results are limited in generalizability, and are only interesting in aggregate. Geotracks are more interesting en solo and in small groups (for analysis) when sampled at semi-regular intervals.

    The current location model is going to have to change. I think most power users will be having an experience similar to yours before long, Andrew.
  • andrewhyde
    Brightkite is fantastic about privacy, should have mentioned that.
  • This is one of my huge quandaries with Twitter's geo implementation and approach. They are, quite literally, changing the way that people interact online and I don't feel they have done enough to protect us from ourselves. Others, like Foursquare, Facebook, etc, are taking queues from this open perspective and changing the way they do business.

    Ultimately, it benefits them, but it also results in a lack of privacy for the general public because these companies are blinded by the value the being open and have no incentive to protect the consumer.

    That said, I limit my use of the geo-api on Twitter to when I'm out in public and feel it lends some context to the tweet. Similarly on 4sq, I tend to only allow people I've actually met (and would want to meet) to be my friends.

    This won't be the last we see of this type of behavior.
  • andrewhyde
    Foursquare shares mayorships against your request... if you have one, everyone that shows up will see your photo and username. You can make these vague, but if you are just playing a game with friends, quite weird.

    The twitter geo implementation scares me the most.
  • I judiciously check-in on Foursquare when I'm somewhere that I don't mind people joining me. I will also say it's nice to be ambiently-aware of where my boyfriend is throughout the day/evening even though we aren't the kind of couple who check-in with one another (and I never want to be that kind of couple!). But this also requires judicious friending; I only accept a Foursquare request if I would *want* you to appear at the bar for a drink when I'm there.

    I have always wanted an app that lets me know where my old high school friends are in proximity to me when I'm visiting their city (namely, NYC). When you're in town for a week and it's hard to schedule time to see everyone, it'd be sweet to notice Dennis is at the Duane Reade on the next block or Sara is at the Starbucks. (The last time I was in NYC I literally did run into Dennis at Duane Reade and Sara at Starbucks, but I can't rely on that kind of serendipitous universe in the long-term.) I'd also like to know if you were in town, Andrew, and I happened to be nearby so I could come say hello... so maybe consider revising your friends' list (if I may be so presumptuous as to assume you would let me see your Seattle check-ins) and checking in more rarely? For me it's less about mayorships and more about enhancing my relationships.
  • andrewhyde
    I agree that there is some room for innovation and really cool things.

    Love your high school buddy idea!

    And I need to make it back to Seattle!
  • I'm so sorry Andrew! I didn't realize I was stalking YOU!!! ;) I promise never to go to THAT COFFEEHOUSE again. kidding!

    That's why I didn't want you to BriteKite from my house when you came over for dinner that time, cause of stalkers :)
  • andrewhyde
    It wasn't you (Yu?) at all!

    Funny we had this conversation so long ago.
  • Is this your way of telling me I shouldn't stalk you anymore?

    And if you ever want to play the real Four square, let me know. I used to be champion in the sixth grade.
  • andrewhyde
    Four Square tourney at crossfit!!!
  • Andrew, unfortunately when you get into the public eye, some people start acting weird toward you. Your exposure as the leader of Ignite Boulder and Techstars (among other things) makes you vulnerable.

    May you enjoy increased peace with that new small measure of anonymity. And may those stalkers stalk EACH OTHER instead of those who do not like being stalked!
  • andrewhyde
    That made me laugh, I heard an idea about hiring the street peddlers in Boulder to talk to the petitioners, kinda the same concept.
  • Interesting, but this is why I like Foursquare better than Gowalla. I can "lie" about where I am. For instance, when I get home I don't check in there, I check in at the nearby Ritz. That lets anyone who knows me that I'm in the neighborhood but doesn't give my exact location.

    I think this is an excellent point, though, and one that needs to be discussed more.
  • With gowalla its anything, not just business. So you could create a place on gowalla that you like to check in on you way home that is called, "Scoble's magical treehouse" and then all the geeks could check in there like a shrine.
  • Let's start the "Scobleizer lives in the Ritz" rumour :-)
  • And to think, all this time I thought you were Mr Moneybags with all your Ritz checkins!
  • This also has a surely unintended benefit of making you look like a high roller. =]
  • andrewhyde
    I would always check into the park near my house for this reason.

    Funny and random tip about Gowalla: iphone users are the only ones currently adding spots, and internationally, nobody is using their data plans, so all the spots in Europe are free wifi spots (90% on my last trip).

    There is room for great things, but I'm out of the game now.
  • hkoren
    This is why more private services like Google Latitude are superior. No public broadcasting, only people you designate will know your whereabouts. Then it has a "City-based location only" for those you might not fully trust. Plus it's built into the Google mobile maps apps. No nonsense or games, just location awareness.
  • andrewhyde
    I have not played with Latitude much, will look into the features... interesting.
  • Agree with you. There are definitely some inherent security issues if you decided to participate.

    At the end of the day, it depends on the motivation the user has with using these services. For me, there's no ego-boost or competition. I've discovered a few places and people that I never would without using them. So they provide some value.

    Do they outweigh the potential stalker risks for me? No. However, I'm careful to use them when I'm traveling and my fiance is home alone. You never know the crazies that may be tracking you to know when are or are not at home.
  • Same thing with kids. Even if you don't check in at the school, just knowing where the area you live can provide insight into school districts, etc. Then again, that could make your life just *boring*. Work, school, home, work school, home. I'm less worried about security than abject dullness.

    Still, all of this can be cross-referenced with flickr photos, facebook/twitter posts-- so it's beyond just a simple 'show up where you are' thing. An entire aggregated profile can be created on any individual, enabling a someone to really crawl inside someone else's head.

    Our vanity and false sense of 'networking' (and passive acceptance of Facebook corp outlook) makes it oh-so easy for complacency to advance.
  • andrewhyde
    ug, what a nightmare to have to think about that... (said as a single guy, no kids or pets).

    I think more people need to think about the security issues... and how they can be solved while pushing the game forward.
  • Friend requests (and acceptance) are not simple on digital networks. It's not so easy as do I know this person (or not), but do I want this person to have access to me. I'm sure we all have "friends" that we know well enough, but whom we rather didn't randomly drop in on us. Whether a geosocial app or a simple "excited or [fill in the blank] meetup at [blank] on Twitter or Facebook, we reveal more about where we can be found. There are both benefits and risks. For me, the benefits, namely of meeting new and interesting people, still outweigh the risks.

    As online social grows, friends increasingly worry that I post too much and open myself to the very dangers you talk about. And while little more than a rationalization for an activity I won't [yet] give up, I tend to think that everything I publish leaves a better digital trail for authorities to follow should something happen to me. Twisted, I know, but true.
  • andrewhyde
    Great comment. The one thing that goes against what you said is Foursquare broadcasts your mayorships on their website. Here is the picture and the spot they most check in. Shared to all.
  • daemonnivas
    Hey,

    You have nailed it right in the head. Location is nice invention but it is just not suitable for social networking for one simple reason: why would I as a user reveal my location? What is the benefit that I as a user have to justify me telling you my exact GPS coordinates?

    If you want, read my blogpost on similar (same?) topic: http://www.nivas.hr/blog/2009/12/29/gowalla-wha...

    Nice to see that more people are starting to see the obvious in location based services.
  • I beg to differ. What's more social than letting your friends know where you are and that (unstated, but implied) they're welcome to drop in if they're also nearby?

    To date, friends who've shown up some place while I was there have always pinged me by SMS or Twitter DM to see if it was cool if they did so. I have no problem with that and find it part of the attraction. I know lots of people in Austin, but there's no way I'm going to contact them all every single time I head out to see if they'll have any free time later and to let them know they're welcome to drop in at XYZ Cafe and chat if they'd like.
  • andrewhyde
    Great post!

    I think there are some great and obvious reasons to use it as well, makes seeing your friends 100% easier.
  • There are a couple people who have requested to be my friend repeatedly on these services, whom not only have I never met (even online), they live in different states. Very frustrating that privacy isn't a higher priority for these guys.
  • andrewhyde
    I wonder if this is from the way discovery tools are set up... 'see all the people on this service that you are friends with on facebook etc'

    Or you have a stalker network :)
  • It's probably because of the discovery tools, as you mention. Happens to me several times a week. Unless you live in my town or are someone I've actually had a conversation with online or F2F, there's not much likelihood I'm going to bother accepting your Foursquare request as I don't care where you go and I see no reason you need to know where I go in realtime, though you're welcome to see the history on my profile.

    I'm not so much concerned about people showing up when I'm eating dinner as I am for the people who somehow think there's no risk in listing their house on Foursquare and then checking in there every night...or not checking in when they're away from home.

    By the way, you haven't really quit until you actually delete your profile. I was still able to find you and see your history. Those stalker types can do the same.
  • I'll admit, when I first started reading your post I was skeptical, but I agree with you. I think I've been in denial of this problem. I've not yet had any stalker problems, but it seems like once it happens, you're screwed unless you pull the digital eject chord. The more well known you are in any community, the more exponentially this problem is likely to happen. One of my friends, a well known artist, had this problem in a big way. He has to be very protective online, and he has a family. Not good.

    It seems a "DUH" that these services should have complete privacy options.
  • andrewhyde
    I never thought I would write this post. Ever. Funny how these things work.
  • good word. I never got into the services by virtue of it was just one more thing to do or be conscious of. But then I started thinking about the stalker implications. Truth be known, I don't want to be THAT known to strangers.

    (I don't miss the iron, though, in posting my user name and web page to my comment:)
  • andrewhyde
    That made me laugh :)
  • john
    +1
  • Dave
    +1
  • naomimimi
    never had a smart phone so i've never really checked in. the concept always scared me. anonymity is a precious commodity... something i don't want to give up :)
  • Privacy will be the new killer app. Once everyone is connected, the cool thing will be to not available. Of course, it's always been that way -- the top tiers of people protecting their access. But we've moved away from it lately. I think exclusivity will become popular again.
  • andrewhyde
    The first week you have a smart phone we will see 500 checkins to make up for lost time
  • I too am a reformed location-based service user. Not that I was ever stalked, but even the constant checking in became far too tedious.

    And for what, bragging rights? Yeah, that was fun for a month. $1 beer? Please. Happy hour prices are better.

    In reality, I don't care if others care where I am.
  • greeblemonkey
    Tedious! Yes. And now with so many apps, I need a aggregator to check in at all these places for me. Andrew, I am coming close to the same conclusion as you. Still need to mull it, because there are parts I like, but I totally agree there needs to be more security features built in. Great post.
  • andrewhyde
    It is amazing how it can turn people into check in machines for bragging rights. A fun game for a week, I'm seeing people moving on. A fad? Perhaps, but too addictive.
  • It didn't seem to catch on quick enough for me. Might have been nice to get some sort of discount, but most owners are barely discovering the internet, let alone social type technologies.

    Declaring this the year of geo-location apps seems a bit far fetched.
  • The problem isn't location based services/games... It's that they are almost ALL based on checkins. Check-ins are the most uncreative way of using lat/long there is. More here: http://bit.ly/checkins
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