The Tragedy of Nepal 2011

A deep depression hit me about an hour into my visit to Nepal and lasted for the first two weeks. Nepal, as a travel destination, is nothing short of raved about. “The Himalayan Mountains are majestic and the people are the nicest in the world!” was a common travel tidbit I heard. What I found was a developing nation with deep problems becoming worse by the month with tourism hastening the poisoning of the well. The pollution is the worst I have ever seen. Air, land, sound and water, nothing is spared the careless trash. The people are wonderful and also skillful about exploiting the tourist scene. Everyone you meet has a friend that is in the business of what you want to do, and they have a vested commission in getting you to open up.

Kathmandu, Thamel

So much of this place is changing, generally for the worse. You can see the mountains from Pokhara, but the smog makes the view, well, depressing. Kathmandu is thriving from tourism, but at the expense of the country workers leaving to find easier work (and often times they can’t get it, resorting to black market and corrupt jobs).

The horns on the motorbikes are non-stop. The taxis will take you for a ride and to your destination. They view cheating tourists as a right, a recent newspaper article boasts.

“Merry Christmas, sir!” a 10-year-old boy told me. “Would you like some weed?”

I wanted to leave within a week of getting here. Let me rephrase that: I wanted to leave and start a campaign to stop tourism in Nepal. There was no redeeming value. It was soulless, corrupt and destroying everyone that touched it. Not something I want to be supporting, in reality or my dreams.

“Merry Christmas, sir!” a older man told me later in the frigid night.

“Need a cute girl? Bang bang.”

Vendor outside the bus

City is city. I get this. This happens. Pollution happens. Black markets happen. My dream of this place happened, and it was far, far off from what actually is here. The political democracy is on a thread, and a saving grace is the blancas that come here to spend their money. Nepal is developing, there is no doubt of that.

The bus ride from Kathmandu to Pokhara is a very direct reminder of how developing the country is. More than 10 police checkpoints stop every car, bike and bus to check permits and tolls. A six-hour ride passed (formerly) amazing views of valleys, rivers and mountains. There is also a police paddy wagon arresting vendors, drunks and teens (by random it seems). The motorbikes don’t obey the road closure rules and honk at the mob walking down the street. “Get out of my way!” their imported ultra-loud horns say.

Nepal Roadside

Everything seems to be just this: an urgent cry. The rural areas of Nepal, I shall learn, are extreme in their land and experience. I met a mother that had 12 children living, and had buried eight. The eyes of people around town are full of salesmanship or despair. An old lady sells me some beads, which are made by hand and support her family trapped in Tibet.

“That is full of shit!” my guide tells me, yelling at the widow. She scatters, and I am told that the beads are from China, and she just does what sells to the tourists.

Everything isn’t as it seems. Isn’t how I fell in love with Nepal. The lore just doesn’t match up.

Time to get out of the city. Annapurna Circuit is on my life list. 220 miles circumventing some of the tallest mountains in the world. Every town along the way has tea houses to welcome the trekkers (60,000 strong per year as of 2009). Wilderness, I hoped.

As with most of my hopes in Nepal, it was quickly smashed. There isn’t much sense of wilderness here. Can we make money off it?

Develop it. Rice fields can fit on most hillsides, put them in. Trash was everywhere (and not tourist trash, local trash was the stuff on the ground). You can see why: A young girl asks every trekker for chocolate as they walk by. She unwraps it, eats a bit and drops the wrapper on the trails. This joins the 10-50 pieces of trash per 10 yards of the trail. The full Annapurna Circuit is 220 miles, and at that estimate, we are looking at 352,000 to 1,760,000 pieces of trash on the trail.

Wilderness. Nepal’s tourism is built on the trekking. You pay a visa fee on entry to the county, and a “conservation fee” for the assumed conservation. Nowhere to be found.

The dark secret of wilderness around the world is that the land is usually not developed because it is too hard to profit off of. The Himalayas are off limits, but the wooded areas around it are not protected.

The tea houses in towns welcoming you? They are just hotels, built for the trekkers. There isn’t much past the towns, other than the hotels. In most we visited, there wasn’t anything besides that.

River Crossing In Nepal

Trekking on the most hated road in the world. The road.

  • Day 1 The road!
  • Day 2 The road.
  • Day 3 The fucking road.
  • Day 4 The fucking road destroying this place.
  • Day 5 The fucking road built by children destroying this place.
  • Day 6 The fucking road build by children destroying this place and eating the soul of all around.
  • Day 7 The inevitable road.

The Fucking Road

The road is going in at the strong urging or citizens of Manang. There are 3000 full-time residents, and with stories of hundreds of children being saved with a modern road in and out, convinced the government to put in a road. The road conveniently goes exactly on top of the trekking trail. Where the road is built, the trail is gone.

Wilderness.

Now, if you are a person that can do third grade math, you can figure out that the road will carry, at capacity, the same amount of tourists that currently hike on the trail (averaged out). ย One car per three minutes with eight passengers on a road that is unstable at best.

The guiding services expect trekking to go up when the road is completed. On day six, right past Tal, we saw the road being jackhammered into the hillside. “Awful young,” I thought. “It is a good job” my guide said (as the last official thing said as my guide). We passed a group of 20 youth, aged 6-10, high up on a hillside clearing the blasted land from the army. The tourist funded army. Yes, come to the mountains, and see the whites of the eyes of the child labor you are supporting. ย I’ve never seen eyes so cold. ย So hurt. ย So helpless. ย They are doing a very hard job, unsupervised, with almost no pay as a replacement of their childhood.

My guide learned a valuable lesson about unfair and dangerous jobs: If you support it, you can lose yours.

If you hike the Annapurna, you support, directly, child labor. They might hide it during the high-season, but the ugly and shameful beast is there. The knock-off brand-name jacket you bought in Kathmandu are made by a different tragic set of small hands.

Wilderness.

We are in the last years of the Annapurna being a place where people trek. The inevitable road is set to be finished in 2014, with buses and jeeps honking and smoking up the valley. They are aiming to have 150 vehicles per section, per day. To my surprise, they don’t expect trekking to go down.

The powerlines cover the entire valley until Manang. A 42″ flatscreen TV is displayed in the kitchen/bedroom/bathroom of a teahouse. The fire rages on, but with no chimney smoke hangs at waist level. The 10 people in the room don’t seem to mind, but their daily environment is killing them. We pay our conservation fund-approved menu meals and hike on. The road is the only way to get up the valley, conveniently, to the next town. Let me Photoshop the power line out of that pristine Himalayan view.

I sit down in Manang for a veggie curry. I’m excited to meet the residents of the town that resulted in one of the classic hikes in the world becoming a jeep trail. I was quickly joined, at 11am no less, by a group of five drunk and high business owners. The all too familiar get-to-know-the-tourist-before-selling-them-shit game is played. It is around zero outside. No insulation to be found. This week, eight Nepali die due to the cold.

“You want good weed, you come to Karma.”

The inevitable road is being built and supporting this, and this alone. There is a small town that used to be here. It has been swallowed up by the tourist trash, forever gone. The army is blasting an amazing amount of rock into the river below.

I’m learning the hard lesson of how tourism can destroy.

It is January. It is the coldest week of the year. It is 14,000 feet above sea level, and there is no snow. We walk over the 17,769-foot pass without stepping in a spot of snow. The glaciers have receded back as far as they can without disappearing. We make it over the pass. It is one of the slowest days for traffic on the pass, an officer tells us days later. Six people, guides included. “In October you can see 1,000.”

The majestic Nepal is dead to me, to a lot of people, many of which live here.

Throng La Pass Nepal Summit

After the trek, the papers read of the risk of a political uprising. It is “tourism year,” so the Maoists are pretending to agree to not do anything for 2011, but not many believe that. Opportunities for visas for workers wanting to slave away in foreign lands are crowded in the paper. Only 320 died last year in Quatar. A paraglider died yesterday less than a mile from where I type.

The opportunities are depressing. The government is depressing. The people have lived through hell and are seeing their country being built into a three-star hotel for assholes like me to come and experience their Himalayan dream. With more than 30% of the children not attending school, the government focuses on tourism in 2011. ย I don’t how this will help the core problems, major problems, at all. ย It will only hurt more.

I’ve never felt dirtier as a traveler.

I found many things in this country to be urgent cries. Perhaps this is mine.

More photos from this trip can be found here. I also wrote aย separateย piece with my positive stories from Nepal. ย I decided on the trail that these two had no business being published in the same post.


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233 responses to “The Tragedy of Nepal 2011”

  1. eschapp Avatar

    Disappointing, but if you didn’t share this experience most people wouldn’t know. Probably good you didn’t start in Nepal.

  2. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    That was the original plan.

    Quite a few have this experience, but few choose to share. Interesting.

  3. Rachel Beck Avatar
    Rachel Beck
  4. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    Hey Andrew,

    Thoughtful exploration of the dark side of Shangri-La. That moment is dispiriting when we realize that the world is not our tourist fantasy, it is a real place with real problems, some which we contribute to. On a positive note, if you had visited England 150 years ago, you would have thought it a coal-choked hellhole, but now it’s lovely. So maybe Nepal is at an ugly step in its journey. Anyway, I applaud your willingness to call it like you see it. Keep on thinking and feeling. Safe travels.

    —Jonny

  5. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    agreed.

  6. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    Another thought. Since tourism is the generator of most of their economic activity, isn’t that what funds the 70% of the kids who are going to school? So along with the ugliness, there are some silver linings.

  7. Djpushkar Avatar
    Djpushkar

    read it..ur experience n perception. like all the developing countries here they are…developing n learning, can’t blame them. it’s the western world , western culture they’ve got now. it no longer is the beautiful shangri-la it used to be 20 years ago or say 10. people n influences is all that is.. now n bak then n future..hopefully they’ll leran soon enough n grow big.
    but still saw ur pics n still the most beautiful n remote n wild places on earth for sure.

  8. Ben Klaus Avatar

    This is why I am grateful for our National Park System!! A sad post, for sure. Thanks for sharing it.

    I guess maybe you should’ve taken the guy up on his offer for some weed? Might have helped with the depression!

  9. Pete Avatar
    Pete

    Great Story, well written, most folks feel that tinge of discomfort on trips to the east or Latin America but can’t describe it as thoughtfully. Hope your writing it was a bit cathartic for you. Cheers.

  10. Sarah Gjestvang Avatar

    Also: http://www.sarswatifoundation.org/ Founded by a Nepali college student in the US to help his community and the rest of Nepal, with a focus on youth and education.

    I’m sure there are many more foundations doing good things there. (I know of this one because the founder is a friend of a friend.) When situations around the world get too depressing, I find it useful to remind myself that there are people doing good, and that things will get better (and that sometimes I can help, too).

  11. Zach Hale Avatar

    Wow that is shocking and unfortunate. Thank you for recording this and I’m saddened that it’s as bad as you describe. Hopefully your other experiences have been much more positive.

  12. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    Thanks for sharing this sobering post. It reminded me of how I felt in some places in India. I don’t think I will ever forget.

  13. Pradeepkc Avatar
    Pradeepkc

    The lack of proper road transport kills thousands of people every year as it takes days to carry a patient to the nearest health center. Maybe Nepal isn’t as beautiful as it was a decade back but It’s people have better lives. I’m hopeful that once the ground level infrastructure is set up we’ll have better days for tourism. Keep visiting Nepal:-)

  14. Rajendra Thapa Avatar
    Rajendra Thapa

    Its not good to blame the innocent children and uneducated old people. The credit for dis-balancing life of local people goes to development of different scientific tools.
    The developed country are doing monopoly on pricing their technology. Still life in village is moving with bartered system. The bartered system economy can not buy expensive gadgets.
    So corruption happens, to achieve these gadgets people have to go abroad for labor, etc.
    Although you might not be directly involved to create this situation but your developed country government is certainly in doing this.
    Its only that you are lucky to be born in developed world. But I am sure Nepal is one of the most beautiful country in the world.
    Thank you very much for depicting the economic and social condition of Nepal.

  15. Rob Avatar
    Rob

    Amazing blog. This is my first visit to your site. Half way reading through your blog, up until where you give homage to “The Road”, I just stopped! In the spirit of conversation, I thought I should pen down my 2 cents. I am not too sure what is the conclusion of your blog, but sensing your tone and disappointment, I can only guess!

    It strikes me, Sir, that this is your first trip to Nepal. Nepal, if in case you do not know, is a very poor country, it is a developing nation. Things are not as well organized as in a developed country like Germany!

    From the moment you land in Nepal, you are greeted with a sense of chaos. To many, that is a disappointment, no doubt about that, but then one should also realize that being a poor and developing nation, things are not “normal”. I remember some wise man once say say, and I am paraphrasing him, “Adventure is when you do not know the knowns”.

    If one can expect to be mugged in Queens or Lower Manhattan and be approached by a street hoodlums in the tube in London to sell Drugs, both metropolis of big developed nation, to be approached for marijuana in Nepal, should not come to you as a surprise!!

    The road, if in case you do not know, had the Romans not build road in Europe, the development of that continent would had lagged. Wherever you look in Nepal, the places that are developed, can easily be assessed by road. Undoubtedly, road is the backbone of development in a country like Nepal. They are building the road to Manang because they want to develop Manang. If you do not want to see the road, there are alternative routes you could take, and I am sure there are alternative trails that could be developed! We should definitely not squash the aspirations of locals!!

    It is coming across to you as some kind of defense, but I must also point out and be frank that there is problem in Nepal. And the problem is in polity, is in the corrupt government, is in the donors that keep on giving donation to the corrupt government. The vicious cycle keeps on turning!! With this, I rest my case!!!

  16. Craig Avatar

    (rolling eyes) He’s not German — just has a clever domain name.

  17. Flooey Avatar
    Flooey

    Actually, Nepal looks like it’s doing pretty well. You might not like the changes, but I’m pretty sure Nepal is happy with its its steadily improving life expectancy, infant mortality, literacy, per capita income, and poverty rate. It might offend our western sensibilities, but what you’re seeing is far better than what a lack of development would do for them.

  18. coward Avatar
    coward

    your “i am shocked, shocked..” routine at everything from pollution to development problems to being offerred weed seems a bit naive. I think I have seen you before, “at the gelato store, as you hover indecisively over the cloudberry and ginger-pomegranate selections, and I notice that your superhuman equilibrium is marred by an anxiety. You seem to have a vague sense that your life has been distorted by a giant cultural bias.” But hey, good luck at whole foods and I hope you will enjoy your trip to iceland to see sigur ros in concert.

    Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/01/17/110117fa_fact_brooks#ixzz1BVqQKlL6

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/01/17/110117fa_fact_brooks#ixzz1AxcIB4OI

  19. Sati Avatar
    Sati

    Wow. That is so sad you saw Nepal through those eyes. I did see the chaos and sadness, but I experienced just as much wonder and beauty. Nepal opened my heart and ignited my compassion and sense of humanity. I fell in love with that country, it’s people and spiritual traditions. Nepal is a paradox and challenging place, but one, that emanated love to me in so many ways. I’m relocating there this year.

  20. Daniel Burns Avatar

    Wow. Thanks for posting your experience. Ten years ago, my wife and I traveled the world and had a similar experience in Bali, S. America and others, although, not as bad it seems. When everyone knows someone who wants to sell you something, finding an honest person to person experience is almost impossible. When we asked ourselves why it was so bad, our answer was staring at us in the mirror.

  21. Taylor Davidson Avatar

    And respect to those that do. And for not just saying “I didn’t like it” or “tourism destroyed it” but by explaining, in your eyes, why. A topic for a later discussion.

  22. Sarah Welch Avatar

    Wow, no wonder you’re so glad to be back on US soil. I applaud you for firing your guide!

  23. Aayam Avatar
    Aayam

    Man!! That’s so rude! Hope it doesn’t happen to you.

  24. Sogeorgefreeman Avatar
    Sogeorgefreeman

    Yes, it sounds like the author has never travelled before. Most of this post comes off as naive.

  25. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    Nepal was the 20th country I’ve had the chance to visit.

  26. Taylor Davidson Avatar

    So not true. Andrew is far from naive.

  27. EMAILBEN145 Avatar
    EMAILBEN145

    arise
    from the swamp
    a lotus

  28. pauliswhoiam Avatar
    pauliswhoiam

    Shit, poor countries are depressing. Tourism’s a tragedy.
    I’ve never felt dirtier as a reader.
    Sorry, I’m not always a snarky asshole. But the thing is, with all due respect to a well written piece about your impressions of the place, it would seem to me that you’re neglecting a few things about the wider context. People needing to make money out of you constantly is obviously extremely tiring. But even if you know they’re lying about poor relations in Tibet, you must still be empathetic to them a little. OK you couldn’t connect with the locals like you wanted to, on a person to person level, but perhaps you can forgive them their commercialism. Sometimes we need to reflect on our priveledge in the wealthier countries. You didn’t find what you were looking for in Nepal, an idyllic wilderness of noble and honest people, but why lay the blame on the tourism itself? It’s a lifeline to the country. Ideally there’d be some justice and respect for human rights in international politics, and they wouldn’t have to rely on it, but they do. You seem mainly to be appalled that the wilderness you imagined was inhabited, and didn’t have adequate garbage collection, and was going to have more motor vehicles, and was filled with desperate people. But so many of these people are reliant on the tourist trade, how is it better to advise people not to go, lest they ‘support’ child labour and bad hotels and pollution. It seems a little presumptious in your position to say “So much of this place is changing, generally for the worse.” Why begrudge them their electricity lines and flatscreens and roads? I’m an optimist, I think things are probably getting slowly better. It’s ugly in the process. But don’t you imagine it’d be even worse if the tourists abandoned Nepal? Or would you think it better that the priveledged didn’t venture to the places they imagine to be so majestic in thier imaginations, because it might turn out that the locals litter and deal drugs and die of the cold?obviously ext

  29. Alao Avatar
    Alao

    It is sad you did not enjoy your time in Nepal but I think that was inevitable if you visit a poor country with utopian expectations, as Nepal is one of the poorest countries in Asia. Unless you keep your visit inside the boundaries of a Club Med you cannot expect the locals to be filtered to meet your expectations. I can imagine if I visited Nepal in my leftist, university days I would have had a similar attitude to yourself.

    The best you can do is be a respectful to the locals and pull up any other tourists you see behaving poorly, without getting into a fight.

    I spent a year living in Laos and am originally from Australia. There are places and people that seem disgustingly exploited by tourists, but if you get more time to explore the country will find many any beautiful aspects to the environment and culture. So what I can suggest is not to visit as a tourist but instead try taking a one year volunteer assignment to a developing country.

    I don’t think tourism is ruining places like Nepal, it just brings to the surface many of the difficult issues the people face. Is it better to be confronted by the ugliness or stay ignorant to it? From reading your post you are clearly very well meaning, and when well guided that attitude can help people make a substantial difference in developing countries.

    I think it’s self-indulgent to look at a country like Nepal and say “white” tourism has caused all their problems. Better to be productive and do things to help. I have found this blog invaluable to shaping my attitudes towards substantial development: http://goodintentionsarenotenough.com

  30. Misery Avatar
    Misery

    I looked through your photos on Flickr, trying to find any visual evidence of the misery and neglect that you describe, and I found none. But I saw many shots of your smiling face. And what I realized was that this article had nothing to do with Nepal, and everything to do with you and your self-loathing.

  31. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    Do you take and upload pictures of things you don’t like to prove a point?

    If you did, what would that say?

    I was there for a month, a few pictures of smiling is, well, kinda par
    for the course.

  32. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    I would have said something similar to this type of post before I went. I’ve lived in and visited my share of poverty, nothing new here.

    I went for the mountains, got turned off by the day care centers labeled orphanages.

    A big difference between developing and deconstructing.

  33. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    There were a few other reasons why, but that was the last straw. I paid for a few extra days and wish him all the best.

  34. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    That is what is really tough, you want to help and be a positive influence.

    There has been some amazing experiences on this trip, even in parts of Nepal. Everything I have read about Nepal was not in what I experienced, had to write it.

  35. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    This. This is how I wanted to feel.

  36. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    Appreciate the reference.

    If you have traveled with me you would know this is far from true.

  37. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    Thanks for taking that one for me.

  38. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    Never have, never will.

  39. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    i agre w u

  40. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    I can’t speak for how the money is distributed, but if the current political fire says there are some major problems.

    I talked to a few teachers of very rural areas who were nothing but depressed about the states funding and stance on standardized tests.

  41. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    I didn’t visit with utopian expectations (just simple ones like being able to see the mountains through the smog).

    Interestingly, tourism in Nepal is not very ‘white’ as China, Korea and India make up at least half of the visitors.

    Thanks for the blog link!

  42. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    I really want to hear about your trip!

  43. Andrey Avatar
    Andrey

    Please do evaluate from a neutral’s point of view. Don’t just simply focus on the dark sides.

  44. Kay Avatar
    Kay

    I spent a week in Nepal recently and had an eerily similar reaction. Kathmandu is a horrible, and terrifying, shell of a city. Pokhara is much worse.

    Thanks for putting your experience down in words. I hope having this out there as the modern reality of that country does some good, or at least stems the bleeding a bit.

  45. NULL Avatar
    NULL

    I’m not sure I could post as honestly as you. Partially because the experience was a paradox I’m still trying to parse through myself, and partially because of comments like the ones I’ve seen here – I don’t want to insult anyone with my reflections of my experience (which was both full of good and bad extremes). You might notice (if you read my blog, no biggie if you don’t), that I did a “woo! I’m going to India!” post, but never a “here’s what India was like” post. It’s almost exhausting to even think about boiling down nearly a month in another country to a post. Kudos for your blogging un-laziness, Andrew. Wish you could bottle that. ๐Ÿ™‚

  46. Matt Avatar
    Matt

    I agree with many of the observations you make, but I would like to point out that your experience in Nepal was the tourist experience and nothing more. Having lived in the country for several months, I can tell you that once you step outside the tourist bubble of Thamel/Pokhara/Annapurna, there is much beauty to be found in Nepal, both in the people and in the scenery. Annapurna is filled with trash and TVs, yes, but there are many other beautiful treks that are not (not coincidentally, they are less well known to tourists). I also think find your dislike of TVs and teashops on the trails in bad taste. As a tourist you hope for the dream world of an untouched Nepal, but the reality is that the people living in the mountains are human beings who desire higher levels of comfort, and guest houses provide (quite a lot of) income which helps them raise their standard of living. Indeed, there are dishonest people and people who will pester or scam tourists, but not at a level that is unreasonable for a developing country. If you take a few days to learn some simple phrases in Nepali and have simple exchanges with most people, they will warm up to you very quickly.

    You have to remember that Nepal just came out of a 10 year civil war and, as you alluded to, lacks solid government institutions. It is no surprise then that the tourism industry isn’t quite under control. Nepal is a very complicated country and if you feel it your role to avoid experiencing it because the tourism industry can’t deliver a good experience, that is fine. But tourism will remain an important part of the country’s economy and if people continue to visit and the industry survives the transition to a hopefully more effective democracy, the results will ultimately benefit everyone.

  47. David Avatar
    David

    As tawdry and miserable as it may seem for the locals to prostitute themselves for tourism, I can’t imagine their alternatives are any better. What would that old lady be doing if she wasn’t attempting to sell you beads? Would she make the same money with the same ease? And if not, why consign her to less?

  48. Becki Neel Avatar

    thanks for sharing your real feelings, emotions, observations with us andrew. as a future tourist of that place, i appreciate your insight. i think i will be more prepared when i go. i will check my expectations. my dream will bear in mind what johnnygoldstein said. ๐Ÿ™‚

  49. Reena Avatar
    Reena

    Thanks for sharing your experiences with everyone. As a Nepali, I myself feel ashamed about the government’s decision to declare this year as a tourism year, particularly when the power outage lasts over 12 hours per day among a host of other reasons, however, I am also surprised and feel bad for you that you did not get to witness even a single positive aspect of the country.Nepal could be much better in every way but it takes a whole new revolution!!

  50. Deepesh Avatar
    Deepesh

    I know- you are not lying at all. Even I felt the same way as you did when I went Nepal after a couple of years stay at the States. Things have changed are changing- most of them are changing in a bad way. Things are not organized, and pollution is uh!

    However, you looked only at the dark side, Andrew, or at least you shared the dark side of your story only. The story would have been complete and fair only if you wrote about the beauty and majesty of Nepal. You did not mean there was none, or did you?

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